Jerod Tate on the creative process of composing, his American Indian Identity and our community of artists

Our guest today is Jerod Impichchaachaaha' Tate, a composer, pianist and member of the Chickasaw Nation! Jerod shares valuable insights on his journey of self-discovery, embracing his roots, and the significant role they play in his artistic expression.

Jerod tells us about his creative process, how he balances artistic productivity with parenting, and the significance of finding support in challenging times. Always grateful, he is juggling life's demands like the rest of us! We loved getting to know more about the man behind the explosion of modern American Indian music, and we know you will too!

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Mentioned in this episode:

Jerod's website: https://jerodtate.com/
Rosette String Quartet on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rosetteSQ/
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Episode edited by: Emily MacMahon and Liz O’Hara

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Additional music by: Freddy Hall with www.musicforpodcasts.com

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Transcript

Liz: 0:00

How was your birthday?

Steph: 0:04

It was fun, it was a good day. Originally, my husband was going to be out of town and so he had ordered all these surprises to happen at my house, so I got flowers. And then I woke up on Saturday morning and I went outside because I was going to go to the gym and there was this giant yard sign which we'll post to our Instagram. You can see what it is Giant yard sign that says Happy Birthday Stephanie, which I thought were kind of reserved for children.

Liz: 0:36

No way, we're never too old.

Steph: 0:41

I was like okay, not only does everyone know it's my birthday, but now they know my full name and when my birthday is. So I got over the embarrassment of that. I was like this is a celebration. I made it through one more year. That's right. Yes, it's my gosh darn birthday.

Liz: 0:59

That's right.

Steph: 1:02

Welcome to the Musician-Centric podcast. We are two freelance violists living and laughing our way through conversations that explore what it means to be a professional musician in today's world. I'm Steph.

Liz: 1:14

And I'm Liz, and we're so glad you've joined us. Let's dive in.

Steph: 1:22

My daughter's got a youth orchestra out here, and so went to her concert.

Liz: 1:27

That was on your birthday too, that was on my birthday.

Steph: 1:31

Was that a nice birthday present too? Yeah, I mean, it was a youth orchestra concert, but your daughter playing. Fine, but she played and she happens to be principal of her section, wow.

Liz: 1:41

Exciting, that is exciting. Somehow, I'm not surprised.

Steph: 1:45

Well, you know, it's funny when you have kids and I'm sure everyone who has children out there will also have this opinion. But when you have kids it becomes very stark. What your priorities are and what your kids' priorities are do not necessarily match up. It's just a realization that you have to come to that. My child, even though they came like literally from me or they are not me they are their own distinct human being and that seems obvious to say. But you know, you think of your childhood and what you wanted in your childhood and that's not necessarily what your kids are going to want, right? Or your students. For people who are teachers, I had this conversation with several people Like we who made a career out of music are like the 5% of people who took private lessons. So your teacher, your expectation for yourself as a student and the way that you came prepared to lessons was probably not the way the majority of people came to lessons right?

Liz: 2:44

Yeah, or the internal motivation is different, for sure, right? Yes, I can't say I was ever prepared for lessons, but my goal was to just keep playing music all the time. But that's not every kid's endeavor, that's 100% true. And, honestly, teaching becomes so much more freeing when you just recognize that each one of them has their own goals. Right, if you have a kid who's just like I, just want to do well in my school orchestra, then you could say, okay, then I'll coach you to do that. That's your goal, that's what you want to do, and learning this music is going to help you become a more well-rounded human being, and that is at the core of teaching.

Liz: 3:24

Like it's not about making the best musicians, it's about making the best humans, and that's what music does. So I love that. But I'm curious to know I wanted to ask if it's okay. So your daughter is principal of the orchestra, so she obviously plays well and she obviously does a good enough job playing to be chosen to be principal of the orchestra. How is it that you notice your goals are different or, like her approach to it is different from your own experience, like personally experience?

Steph: 3:50

I think just that. Well, we outright had a conversation about it Did you. Yeah, I'm curious. She has no motivation to practice or like for auditions or seating auditions. This last round is the first orchestra that she's actually had to do seating auditions. So you audition to get in and then there's seating auditions to determine who becomes. You know where you sit in the section Right, so that was not a priority for her at all to practice for the seating audition, you know, then submit a quality video.

Steph: 4:15

It was very last minute and it made me so anxious, Right, but this is a going theme with me and my kids around schoolwork. I know it's something that is very triggering for me because I was always you had to have your homework done. I put that pressure on myself. I couldn't. The worst feeling to me was showing up at my lesson or at school without my homework done or without me having practiced.

Liz: 4:39

Sure.

Steph: 4:40

So that's just a very triggering thing for me. But anyway, she has doesn't have the same motivation to do that. She did it very last minute and it was fine, obviously it was fine. But I really have to talk myself through those, those differences. She is not you. Yeah, it's okay. It's really interesting. It's really that doesn't matter.

Liz: 4:57

That dynamic is so fascinating because it really I know we had this funny conversation together when we were out to dinner with a friend not that long ago about like the parent kid dynamic and letting certain things happen, or if you're really neat versus the kid is really messy or vice versa, whatever it is. And it's interesting too because I'm curious to see if at some point the lesson is learned for them through experience. In this case, she didn't suffer any negative consequences from putting things off and that was true for me for a long time and then ultimately, the struggle comes when there's something you really really, really want and you haven't put yourself in a position to be able to be prepared and be ready and do everything you can to have that thing, and then you don't get it, and so that'll be an interesting moment for you as a parent too, I imagine.

Liz: 5:49

Anyway, it's cool. I'm glad you got to go to her concert on your birthday. Yeah, yeah, it was fine.

Steph: 5:55

And you made a cake that looked incredible. Yes, because I can't not make my own cake. I can't leave it to chance. Yes, someone will buy me a cake and I'll be like oh, I could have made a much better cake, and I enjoy the process. So that's not a hardship for me to make my own cake.

Liz: 6:14

Does it feel a little like a gift for you to make the time to do it?

Steph: 6:18

Yeah, I just really enjoy the process. I love it so relaxing. Otherwise, I was just going to say this whole conversation about doing what you feel your strengths are and guiding your kids into doing and your students into pursuing their strengths. I had a conversation with a cashier this morning because I was at the grocery store. It's the week before we're recording this, the week before Thanksgiving, and it's Monday and I refuse to go to the grocery store anymore than once on the week of Thanksgiving and I won't go past Monday. But anyway, I was talking with this cashier and he is a student down in Richmond studying ASL and he said he originally started in mechanical engineering or something because he likes to do things with his hands and he thought that was going to be what he pursued but he just it didn't speak to him.

Steph: 7:07

And so he switched because he wants to help people and interact with people and connect with people, and so I just found that I thought it was a really a great time to realize that.

Liz: 7:18

Yeah, yeah.

Steph: 7:21

But it made me think about our Joy Loves company group that we're going to be starting very, very soon.

Liz: 7:25

Yes.

Steph: 7:27

And the book that we're using. Is that creative success now, which is all about finding the best use of your skills and artistry?

Liz: 7:34

Yeah, yeah, and so first of all, for those of you listening to this in real time or right as we're releasing episode, we had our first meeting with the group, but it's not too late to come together and join with us. All you have to do is sign up on our Patreon at the $5 month level, order the book and you can jump in. We're very laid back about the structure of our group, so I don't think you'd have to feel like you'd miss too much if you were jumping in. You know a week or two later than we start, so that's important to say.

Liz: 8:05

But the other thing I wanted to say was I went down this rabbit hole and I don't know if you've done it yet, but when we talked with Astrid on the interview a few weeks back, we learned that she has these strengths tests that she uses and she has this free one online that she really likes to recommend to her students called the high five test, and it's really straightforward, and I just I sent it to a bunch of people and I was like, oh, do this, do this? And it was fascinating to me that of all of the people like sort of in my inner collaborative circle, that have shared their results with me. So far, each one of us has a couple of things in common, and then there's things that are different.

Liz: 8:38

And so it was really cool because it was like oh okay, this is actually really useful information because you know that, then you know we all connect in this sort of way. Like film math was one of the things that came up for everyone so far that I have asked to take it and has taken it. And film math is the concept of lifelong learning. Like it's just this person who always is seeking to learn. It makes sense that I would be connected with a lot of people that have that as a strength. I would guess most of the people like I'm sure that's going to come up for you too, you know. So it was really interesting to see the connection. But then it was also oh okay, there's these other little facets of this person's personality and when we get to, when we get into a conversation about a certain type of thing, this is why that dynamic happens the way it does, because they're seeing it from this perspective and I'm seeing it from this perspective and it was actually really cool. So, yeah, I'm excited about that.

Steph: 9:30

Yeah, so okay, I'll do mine. I promise I'll do mine and everyone who's in the group is going to do it, but if you're not able to join us, please do the high five test and tag us on Instagram and let us know what your strengths are. I'm really interested to know what overlaps amongst our listeners.

Liz: 9:48

Yeah, you know they're totally baiting me too, because they give you the five for free and they describe them. But then there's like a whole comprehensive thing that goes into all the rest of the strengths and it labels them out for you, orders them, and I'm like man, do I just pay like the 20 bucks or whatever to find?

Steph: 10:03

out the whole thing I got to watch. Stay strong Well, you only need, like the five, the top five.

Liz: 10:09

Well, I'd love to know the other ones for how much you know, teamwork is just like a massive part of my work life, right, and I just would love to know the other ones so I can be like okay, I think this person probably leans in this direction and that'd be a good skill to have like on a team. So it's interesting yeah.

Steph: 10:25

I'm super interested, so that'll be it. I'm just, I think it's such a magical idea to find, like the Goldilocks career for yourself. You know the thing that's just so perfect, and it may not be playing an orchestra or it may not be teaching 100% of the time, but I'm just, I really I think everybody just wants to be feel, seen and gotten, and I think that's why personality tests are so popular or these types of tests. Oh, tell me more about me. I want to know, get me, get me.

Liz: 11:00

Yeah, it's good. The more we understand ourselves, the more we understand how we show up in the world, the better we show up in the world. So it's hard to find a good segue for the conversation that we had with this incredible, incredible guest that we're featuring on this episode, Jarod Tate, who is just a phenomenal human being. He's a composer, he's a musician. Where do you even begin with this conversation?

Steph: 11:25

Well, it sounds like his has been a journey of self-discovery as well, really coming to respect and embrace his Chickasaw roots. He talks about that, which is really interesting. I mean, I gather that anyone who's from different ethnicities may feel conflicted at times, like who am I really? What am I really? And his journey has been really beautiful, and it being a very big part of his identity and path.

Liz: 11:57

Yeah, and also this hybrid, because he spoke about his family's background, that he has this also deep-seated root in classical music, and so this identity of his to represent his culture in the classical world and that was a really interesting facet of the conversation too was that idea that representation includes using other forms and other avenues to get your message out. He talked about filmmaking and he talked about all these other ways that are not traditional for their heritage and didn't come from their heritage, but they are able to use them to speak their stories, and that was really fascinating too. I hadn't thought about it from that perspective before.

Steph: 12:38

But yeah, talk about somebody who used their strengths and molded their career to match them.

Liz: 12:43

Yeah, I really felt like I said this to you and I said this to other people. I felt when we were in that conversation that he spoke so much wisdom, he had so many insights. It was almost just like trying to grab one and like, okay, let's talk about that for a second. Like it was amazing and I know everyone who listens is going to feel the same way. Also, there was something that really stuck with me and has continued to stick with me is this idea that because I think it's fair to say that I mean we're talking a little bit about our individual experiences of identity and understanding more about ourselves, how we show up in the world, self-love, self-compassion, all that stuff I think we're in a real difficult period of transition, not just as individuals, but as a culture in general, and we've been this way for a long time now.

Liz: 13:31

It's been years of identity struggle as humanity, and it was just really interesting to hear him speak very I don't know just peacefully about this idea that we are not. This is not the first time that humanity has faced these moments of real crisis of identity and real challenges, and I think the idea that we have all of our ancestors behind us, having gone through arguably worse, puts things into perspective. Sometimes it can be a source of comfort in a way, yeah, and just recognizing that. You know, as we head into 2024 and who knows, every year there's all these funny memes that pop up in the new year. That's like we thought last year was the worst year. Ha ha, ha ha. Maybe 2024, maybe you'll be kinder, I don't know, we'll see.

Steph: 14:25

I mean, one can hope.

Liz: 14:27

But we are, you know, very gratefully wrapping up our 2023 interviews with this conversation with Jared and taking a little break for the holiday season. On those, we're going to have some Mozart's for you, but then we'll be back in the new year with a whole bunch of other great conversations and we hope you'll stick with us and, as always, share it with a friend if you love it. We have some sticker ambassadors. If you want to be a sticker ambassador, let us know.

Steph: 14:52

Yay, yes, we will send you stickers so you can proselytize on our behalf.

Liz: 14:58

More stickers out there, the better right.

Steph: 15:01

Yes, yes, but in the meantime, enjoy this conversation with Jared Tate.

Liz: 15:08

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Steph: 15:21

Yes, the people at Potter's are what really make it a special place. I love visiting because I know that whoever I work with is not going to make me feel like I'm crazy or just being picky. They're kind of like your favorite bartender. They're great listeners who give you what you need without judgment.

Liz: 15:38

Yes, their technicians are not only super talented, creative and resourceful, they take the time to collaborate with you so that the process of getting your instrument at its best really feels like a partnership.

Steph: 15:49

So if you're in the area, definitely stop by and introduce yourself to Chris, rob Kimberly, derek, jim, melissa and the whole team, or visit PotterViolencecom to find what you need online.

Liz: 16:01

It's so fitting, then, that their shop is in this beautiful old house, because the staff at Potter's really makes it feel like home.

Steph: 16:10

Today's guest, Jared Tate, is a classical composer, citizen of the Chickasaw Nation in Oklahoma and is dedicated to the development of American Indian classical composition. The Washington Post selected him as one of their 22 for 22 composers and performers to watch this year and raved about his rare ability to effectively infuse classical music with American Indian nationalism. Jared was appointed a 2022 Chickasaw Hall of Fame inductee, a 2021 cultural ambassador for the US Department of State and is a governor-appointed creativity ambassador for the state of Oklahoma. And he's an Emmy winner, too, for his work on the educational documentary the Science of Composing, and his music was featured on the HBO series Westworld. So not only is he a sought-after composer, but I read that you did a stint with the Broadway tours of Les Mis and Miss Saigon, so you know what it's like to be a freelancer in this world too. So you've done it all. We're so glad that you've made time to chat with us. It is my honor to welcome you to the Musician-centric podcast. Welcome, so glad to have you, Absolutely.

Jerod Tate: 17:15

I'm a Chinchukmata, a Chickasaw. Nompa Okinaw. Soho Shafoet. Jared Taloa Ikbi Impachaw Chahaa Tate. Chickasaw Sayah Impachaw Chahaa Chokat. Michesaw Iksa Ishtaw Chololilit Taloa Ikbi Lit Hashlaka Sayopa Chokmashki Yakoke. Hi everyone, my name is Jared Impachaw Chahaa Tate and I am a citizen of the Chickasaw Nation in Oklahoma and I am a professional classical composer and I'm very, very honored to be on this podcast. Thanks for inviting me.

Liz: 17:47

That was lovely, yeah, thank you so much.

Jerod Tate: 17:50

You bet.

Steph: 17:50

So we are. Obviously we're both familiar with your work. I performed your string quartet. We're actually going to go see someone perform your string quartet, amongst other things, tomorrow night. We're very excited.

Liz: 18:02

I was just messaging with Ellen and she said that you guys are proudly donning the so Hot Right Now T-shirts in your household.

Jerod Tate: 18:11

No, I'll tell you, I just, I mean, I love their enthusiasm. I mean, of course, it is definitely good for my ego to have something like that. My parents bought shirts, which is really cool.

Liz: 18:24

I know so cute.

Jerod Tate: 18:26

But you know, I'll tell you that is a really good example of what I think of as very, very robust and energetic entrepreneurship.

Liz: 18:34

Absolutely and.

Jerod Tate: 18:35

I'm very proud of them for that, because I think it's a good example.

Jerod Tate: 18:39

I think it's a really good role model for the kinds of ways that we should feel comfortable with promoting ourselves and what we do, because, I mean, they believe in what they're doing, they're very, very excited and very thrilled and happy and they have lots of joy in all of their projects and I think that's really, really great that they're showing that enthusiasm and not being shy about it whatsoever. So, you know, I mean we have a history of kind of getting down on ourselves for self-promotion or, for some reason, there's a negative stigma on selling yourself, and I don't understand. I've never understood that really, because prosperity is a good thing for all human beings. We should want prosperity for ourselves and we should wish prosperity for other people around us, and so we need to be in the game. There's nothing wrong with that, and so I really really appreciate their healthy enthusiasm and their you know, their gen-z-ers basically I'm not sure they're even millennials and so I'm just really grateful for that type of energy and I'm very, very supportive of that.

Liz: 19:34

Yeah, I think they'll appreciate you calling them gen-z-ers, I think we're a little older than that.

Steph: 19:40

Everybody looks like a gen-z-er to me, yeah.

Liz: 19:45

No, it's really true, and I think I mean, maybe this is something that has come out. Steph and I talked about this too. It's been sort of a positive, by-proactive social media. We talk a lot about the negative by-products of social media, but this positive concept.

Liz: 19:59

That's like you get to see all these other people out there expressing themselves, whatever that looks like, and it somehow translates into permission slip for somebody else to say OK, maybe I could just say the thing I want to say and it's not a big deal. Or I have something I want to share, and for we'll just mention Rosette is the name of the group, but they're great with that. They have really done a good job of creating this unique platform for sharing great music, and it was just so exciting to see that this full concert of your music is going to be performed and Steph and I are going to be in town so we can see it tomorrow. So that's great.

Jerod Tate: 20:39

I'm very fortunate. I'm very flattered by this. It's really. I'm very grateful for all of that. It's really cool, Very cool.

Steph: 20:45

Yeah Well. So we're really curious about you personally. So we're both classically trained musicians and we went through the traditional pathways. We're curious how you came into classical music. What inspired you to take this path?

Jerod Tate: 20:59

and then eventually become a composer oh absolutely Well, of course, I have my life story, and my story begins with my parents, naturally, and so my father, charles, is Chickasaw Indian from Oklahoma, and dad was born and raised in Ardmore, which is right in the heart of the Chickasaw Nation in South Central Oklahoma. Here and my father graduated University of Oklahoma Law School with his Juris Doctor and became a tribal attorney and judge special district judge and one thing that's really important about my dad is that he is author to our current Chickasaw Constitution and, for those of you who may not be familiar with Indian country law, all 537 tribes in the United States has our own constitutions that run in tandem with the United States Constitution. So we are all citizens of our tribe. So I'm a citizen of the Chickasaw Nation.

Jerod Tate: 21:45

And I'm also a citizen of the United States of America.

Jerod Tate: 21:47

And this is a very, very unique place in the world that has this. And so I say all that because my father is author to our current Constitution. That was ratified in 1983. We've had constitutions since 1865. And they've gone through different iterations. But also with my dad's background, I grew up with a very, very robust and colorful knowledge of American Indian history, politics and law, and so I've known people from all kinds of different tribes since a very young age and been exposed to all kinds of tribal cultures and governments for a very long time, and I'm very grateful for that. But my dad is also a phenomenally trained classical pianist and baritone and he's where I get my voice and I'm very grateful for that.

Steph: 22:26

I was going to say I was a baritone in there.

Jerod Tate: 22:28

And so my dad's 83. We're very, very close. In fact, we just both performed my sister's entire wedding and he canters and he sings weddings all the time still, and so my father and I speak Indian law and opera in the same sentence all of the time. It's really, really fortunate to have my dad as my buddy like that, and great story, my dad also played accordion as a teenager and he would gig restaurants singing Italian playing accordion. And so you see this chicken-tob kid doing all that in art more Oklahoma.

Liz: 22:58

That is amazing. Only in America can you find something like that? Yeah, only in America. Yes, oh my gosh.

Jerod Tate: 23:06

Pretty cool.

Steph: 23:07

I'm sure you watched a lot of accordion. Well, yes, I'm always impressed with an accordion.

Jerod Tate: 23:12

Yeah, he played that for me when I was a kid, so I grew up with dad playing and singing classical repertoire in the house as well, and so my mother, Patricia, was from Nebraska and mom was Manx Irish, so I am Manx and Chickasaw, and my mother was a professional choreographer and dancer and she also graduated OU School of Music and studied with Yvonne Choteau and Mikhail Terakhov, and so my parents met in the theater and so I grew up as a total theater brat.

Jerod Tate: 23:40

I have saturated very specifically an American theater and dance, and so a lot of my early artistic heroes were female choreographers, like Isidore Duncan and Martha Graham, ruth St Dennis and Ted Sean and Agnes DeMille, and then later on, just all the moderns like Merce Cunningham and Alvin Ailey, jerome Robbins, bob Fosse. Those kinds of folks were in my younger years and so, with all of the dance exposure that I have, I grew up with a lot of modern music, a lot of American modern music, but also my mom choreographed a lot of major ballets, and so I grew up with some of the finest orchestrations ever composed by Stravinsky and Prokofiev and Tchaikovsky and Ravel and.

Jerod Tate: 24:18

Debussy and just stuff like that. I was doing all that when I was a kid, and so I was just completely exposed to those amazing orchestrations. So my dad started me on the piano, and then when I started piano lessons at about eight and a half about three months in I had announced to my family that I was to be a concert pianist. I was in like Flynn, no problems, and so that's how I grew up, was studying piano, and I went to Northwestern as a piano performance major and then the Cleveland Institute of Music, and during my senior year at Northwestern my mom was going to be doing a new ballet.

Jerod Tate: 24:48

She taught at the University of Wyoming for 25 years and she had just done a ballet called the lynching of cattle Kate, about Ella Watson, who was the first and only woman hanged in Wyoming for cattle wrestling, and so she did something that was very historically relevant to the area. And then she wanted to do another ballet based on American Indian stories from the Northern Plains and Rockies, and she created this entire architecture and consulted with a lot of her native colleagues in the state of Wyoming about stories that she could use that kind of thing, and so then she came to me and said well, you're my Chickasaw a pianist kid, you can compose the score and I had to go, had you?

Steph: 25:24

ever thought about composing before that?

Jerod Tate: 25:26

No, no, I said no. I told her absolutely not. That was absolutely ridiculous and I couldn't get it out of my head. I started composing it, kind of in secret, and I came to her with some music and she liked it and we went ahead and moved forward with the gig. But no, I had not thought of composing before and it was really.

Jerod Tate: 25:43

I mean, first of all, I grew up in ballet, so I had an enormous amount of artistic pressure on my shoulders, but also I knew all of our great American Indian visual artists and composers and choreographers and authors, and so I'm looking at all this canon from Indian country and from classical country and I'm just like what? So that was pretty overwhelming, but in a really beautiful and innocent way, my mother was asking me to be all of who I am at the same time. And I just started doing this and as I was talking to lots of colleagues, everybody, everybody from Indian country and from the classical field were saying you got to do this. So I did. So we premiered the ballet entitled Winter Moons, which is actually on Spotify. You can hear the ballet.

Jerod Tate: 26:23

I've listened, I saw it, and the video with my mom's choreography is up on my YouTube channel with the Colorado Ballet performing. And so Rodney Grant, the narrator of Winter Moons. He's an Omaha guy and he was one of the famous actors from Dances with Wolves. He played that character, wendan his hair, who had hair down to his ankles.

Liz: 26:42

He was gorgeous.

Jerod Tate: 26:43

And so he came in to do the narration. It was right after that movie had come out. And so he was just on me like just hammering me You've got to do this, you've got to be a native classical composer, this is important, blah, blah. And so I was like all right. So he was just really, really super passionate. So, rodney Grant, I'm really grateful for him to be in my life. We're still friends and he's just wonderful and he's really responsible for that. So when I finished the ballet, I had left school to come and premiere the ballet with mom, and then I went back and I added composition to my degree at the Cleveland Institute, and that's when I had announced to my family that I was to be a Chickasaw classical composer.

Liz: 27:18

It's so interesting. There's a couple of things I was thinking about. One is we all know that Brahms famously couldn't get his head around the idea of composing something better than Beethoven, and it weighed him down so much that he didn't compose a symphony till he was old. Right Like he waited a very long time.

Liz: 27:40

And he was just so overcome by the weight of that. But I've never thought about the fact that every composer must have some element of experience. That's like wait, wait, wait. I'm going to try to do this thing that all of these other people have done, that there's a weight there, and the freedom that you received just from somebody saying no, no, no, but it's your voice that I'm interested in hearing. Don't worry about the rest of that. I mean, all of that informs us, but really, how do we create anything new if we don't just rely on the fact that our voice is its own unique entity?

Jerod Tate: 28:11

Yeah, I totally agree, and every artist feels this in every field. You feel this way when you're a parent. It's like how do I do this? Everybody's done the same thing with anybody who's growing their lives and trying to achieve anything. There's people that come before us that create a standard, and so we have all kinds of challenges and choices about how we embrace those standards and how we do make our own voice through all of that, because living in of itself is coming from a tradition of life, and so here it is. We're born in all this. So, yeah, I completely agree. I was feeling all of that at the same time and at the same time I also felt very passionate about it. I felt driven, I really felt very compelled and attracted to the idea, and my personal struggles also were. I was talking to my aunt, my dad's sister, ann, and I said, ann, I said I'm struggling because I just don't know how relevant what I do is going to be to Indian country, and she said, oh honey.

Jerod Tate: 29:04

She said Jared there's many ways to be Indian, as there are Indians, and which was very overwhelming and very validating, and I've thought about that in all kinds of ways. And when I teach, I teach a lot of kids and I teach both natives and non-natives composition and I'm really really clear with them about it. I don't have any stylistic restrictions or any particular expectations, like you're going to compose, like me, with this particular technique or whatever I'm like. No, I am your living encyclopedia. I am your life coach, here to answer all the questions that you need to solve anything technical, but it's up to you what you want to do, what my job is to help you be the best artist that you can be, with whatever voice that you have, because there are 8 billion people on this planet, which means there are 8 billion different ways to be a person.

Liz: 29:48

Yes.

Jerod Tate: 29:49

And I'm really grateful that my aunt had told me that in my microcosmos of Native America and so it's the same thing with all people. So I'm just really grateful for that.

Steph: 29:58

Yeah, it's really. It felt probably very liberating to be given that permission. Yeah, On some level. However, you are one of a very small subset of composers who focus in on this one area. Do you ever feel like the representative?

Jerod Tate: 30:17

No, no, I did feel a little bit alone for a while. So, for instance, when I started out, the only composers that I was aware of was Denison Wheelock, who was Oneida, and he was the original composition and music teacher at the Carlisle Indian School in Pennsylvania. In fact, his first orchestral work actually his only orchestral work, his Aboriginal suite, was played in Paris and then in Carnegie Hall in 1901. And he was responsible for educating lots of American Indians in the band world. And actually there's a whole tradition of band in Indian country that lots of people don't know about. But there's been a lot of American Indian instrumentalists through boarding schools and different schools. Like there are a lot of band players, all kinds of Americans have played instruments. So I'm sorry that's a total big tangent.

Jerod Tate: 30:58

But then also Louis Ballard is another composer who was alive at the same time and he was Quapon Cherokee, from Oklahoma, and my parents knew him. They were actually the premier of his ballet, the Four Moons, that had four of the five American Indian ballerinas from Oklahoma in that, and so my parents were at that premiere here before I was born with Louis, and Louis and I were friends, but that's all I had at the time. But since then there's actually quite a few American Indian composers and classical instrumentalists populating, which is really really wonderful, and so I have a lot of friends now in Indian country that are composing and playing classical music, and I knew that that was going to happen over time, but when I started out it wasn't the case and so I felt isolated. That's why I was wondering what is what I'm doing going to be relevant? And it clearly is, which I'm really happy about.

Jerod Tate: 31:46

But if you make any kind of comparison, there's American Indians involved in every single genre of fine art, and one great example is Sterling Harjo doing reservation dogs. I'm really proud that Sterling is a friend of mine and his work is really important because he's showing everybody a modern American Indian expressing their identity through a medium that is not aboriginal to anywhere in the world. That is a brand new art form to all people and all cultures. What brand new? Relatively new, it's 100 years old, but that's not aboriginal to anybody's culture, and so he's a really great example of being modern and connected to your heritage at the exact same time. So another really good example is another friend of mine, joy Harjo, and she is our third time poet laureate for the United States of America, and she expresses her unique identity as a Misscog. She's also a Misscogie from Tulsa, and she is using materials that, again, are not aboriginal to our culture. First of all, she's writing the language down, which is relatively new. It's in books and it's in the English language, and so other American Indians are reading her work in English, and this is all mediums that are not original to our cultures, and so yet we've embraced those as modern tools like everybody else has around the world.

Jerod Tate: 32:55

And of course we've got American Indian choreographers and sculptors and painters. I mean here's all that, and so I mean it's everywhere, and so we've been involved for quite some time, and so I'm very, very happy to be a part of this, and classical music is no different. I'm using orchestral instruments, the same way that Brent Greenwood is using acrylics and a canvas. Those are materials that we didn't have originally. And so, of course, you know Jean-Quique Tissier. She's a Salish artist who uses all kinds of multimedia and stuff, and she uses stuff that's print from her chart. Here's the newspaper from her tribe. You know, this is all really modern stuff that people are doing all the time, and also one thing that's really cool is the incredible explosion of American Indian fashion. Oh my gosh, this is fantastic.

Liz: 33:39

So another really good friend of mine is Margaret.

Jerod Tate: 33:40

Wheeler and she's a Chickasaw textile designer and she's like a total mentor to a lot of the young fashion designer. These are total Gen Zers and some of them are. You're crossing the Gen Alpha actually very soon here in all this artistic expression. But the fashion that's coming out of Indian country right now is stunning.

Jerod Tate: 33:57

Cool, oh, it's so great, and I will tell you, during the pandemic, instagram blew up with visual art. I bought a lot more American Indian art than I had ever in the past and I have so many colleagues who were able to embrace that as a medium of income, and so there's so much American Indian visual art now on Instagram. It's just really, really terrific.

Liz: 34:19

I love this so much. It's a really good reminder that, no matter where you come from or what the history is, there's this whole world of expression available for you to do the thing you want to do. I was curious too. You mentioned having people early on who were really encouraging you of you following this path, and you also mentioned that you had this really innate drive, like that. You just felt passionate about it and it happened and it was exciting, and maybe those two things together, kind of like, gave you the impetus to go for it. When it comes to your compositions, when it comes to your process, what's that like? I mean, is there research that goes into it? You've mentioned to us like there are times of day that you like to compose. What is the experience like?

Jerod Tate: 35:02

Well, it's a very holistic experience, and so all of the things that you were talking about are all present in what I do, and so, as far as I know, every artist that I'm aware of has all facets of what they do, and that is. There's lots of research, personal research, external research that we need to do, and then also inward exploration of what we're hearing, of what we're feeling, all kinds of things, and lots of personal decisions about what it is that we want to express, what's important to us as an individual, and so all those larger things drive the details. It's like parenting, it's like you've got your child and you're like boy, this is awesome. Oh gosh, what do I do? Well, ok, and it's the same thing. And so it's like when I'm creating new work, I'm like, ok, yeah, I really want to do this. What do I do? All right, now.

Jerod Tate: 35:45

And then it's like, instantly, ok, I've got these lists of things. Ok, I want to achieve this. So that means I'm going to have to do this, I want to achieve this. This means I have to do this, and so there's all kinds of logistics that go into creating anything. I mean, it's like if you look at civil engineering, well, somebody starts out with a passion to be like I really want to create this environment in our town, even if it's highway constructions. They want a certain flow to help people do this. This is going to be a better thing. This can be safer. What are all the logistics? How do we plan all this stuff? What are they capable of doing? How do I incorporate this? That's called human creativity all the way around, and it doesn't matter what fields you're in. You could be running a daycare center.

Jerod Tate: 36:20

You can have the exact same issue about what your vision and passion is, and how am I going to implement all that? And, of course, at the end of the day, we're all working with each other. I mean, this is not an isolated event. I spend a lot of time thinking because I have to focus, but I work with hundreds of people every single year, and so this is all about relationships that I have with other artists. But every time I'm sitting at the composition table I'm writing. There's people in the room with me because I'm writing for them. I'm imagining what is this going to feel like with a flutist? How are they going to, how is this going to physiologically be with their when they're performing it? I'm in a relationship with people constantly while I'm doing stuff. So there's always this larger vision. There's always also the details and then when you're actually creating, flexing back and forth, it's fluid. I'm going back and forth between details, larger vision, somewhere in between this over here, this over there, and eventually comes into focus to a final piece because there's deadlines.

Steph: 37:17

Yeah, gotta be done, gotta be done. So your whole discussion about your creative process got me thinking. I've been reading this book called the Creative Act by Rick Rubin and he talks about the different phases of creating something. So at first you have the imagining part of the process and then you have the doing part of the process, and that's the part that's dependent on deadlines and those not so fun things. But when you're in that imagining phase, I'm just curious what you do to spark those ideas. What do you do to get your creative juices flowing? Where do you tend to find inspiration or go for inspiration when you need that quiet space away from the piano?

Jerod Tate: 38:01

You're talking to a dad, so there's no time or space.

Liz: 38:06

Hey, I'm a mom.

Jerod Tate: 38:10

No, I say that was great. I mean, I'm so blessed. You know, honestly, I do take walks from time to time. I don't have a lot of time luxury, so I kind of honestly I live kind of in that spiritual world and the real world simultaneously. It's really just kind of all of the time Teach us how.

Jerod Tate: 38:25

Oh shit. You know, I'll be honest with you, a lot of my inspiration comes from my conversations with people. So that's not downtime, it's like excited, like what we're doing right now. So this is just kind of happening constantly, and whenever I get a phone call from somebody who wants to do a commission, I will immediately ask them OK, so where are you, where are you from this kind of thing? And immediately just ideas start to flow and that's why I have to take notes and I have to. You know, you have to shelve it for a little while and come back.

Jerod Tate: 38:53

But to be honest, I'm just kind of constantly in that mode, it's like all the time. So like I'm always in touch with God, I'm always in touch with my creativity, I'm always in touch with my son and I'm always in touch with my family and friends and nature and living, and so I just it's just kind of is that way, and a lot of that is kind of practical too, because, again, there's not much time in the day, so I just need to keep all those gates open. And yes, this is the problem is that when ideas come in the car, it's oh, that's frustrating because you can't write it down the phone has how many.

Steph: 39:25

That's what voice members are for.

Jerod Tate: 39:26

Yeah, it's like I take notes or whatever. But a lot of times I've got my son with me and I'm talking to him as well, and so I'm just like grab it, grab it, hold it, hold it, hold it, jared. And so I'm desperately trying to hang on to ideas, because they always come at the worst times. It always happens. It's just the way it is All just has to be kind of simultaneous.

Liz: 39:43

I think it's so great because most people will resonate with that concept. That looks like even just in my own experience. I have had phases of my life where I have a lot more time to be silent with myself, to meditate to spend time journaling to do all these things. In the last I don't know how many months, I just haven't had that space. I haven't had that space but I realized I spent over 1,000 miles in the car last week and every drive I know it was insane. I'm never doing it again.

Steph: 40:14

Do not recommend it. Don't try this at home, not for gigs, not for work, I mean on a road trip across the country.

Liz: 40:20

it's great, but like no for work, I don't recommend it.

Liz: 40:23

It's the worst. However, that being said, I swear especially the drive at night, like to my destination to go to bed, the stuff that was coming into my head or just entering my being. It could only be coming from a place of openness and awareness and connection to whatever we consider to be our source, and I was so grateful for it because I was like, oh man, even when I don't have like 45 minutes to just sit in silence every morning, this will still come. I'm still the vehicle for whatever that thing is that can enter if I'm open.

Jerod Tate: 41:01

That's a really good point because I mean, it's still us, so I'm not going anywhere here. So I think a lot of times there's fear in that because, oh, I don't have time, I'm going to lose all my ability. That's not going to go away.

Jerod Tate: 41:17

You're still who you are and it's the same brain, and I remind myself of that a lot. It's like when I think about my age or whatever. It's like it's the same brain that I had when I was 20. I'm the same person. I've learned a lot, but I've still that kind of thing. It's like I'm the same person. Why wouldn't I? So I think a lot of us have the same fears about that and honestly, it's really nice to have a group like this and talk about how we all have the same issues, and when we hear other people's different versions of the same thing, it's really helpful to us. Even if it's not the exact same story, it's the same energy and you just feel in communion with people who are managing the same issues and knowing that, if they can do it under their circumstances, I can definitely figure it out in my mind.

Jerod Tate: 42:03

It's really nice to be able to talk about those human, and especially as adults, issues that we have. We all have them. Oh, so I really like to talk about this. Ok, so there's this issue of when we meet aliens.

Steph: 42:17

And so when we do meet aliens, not if, when, when we meet aliens. Thank you for saying it that way.

Jerod Tate: 42:22

There's all the controversy of well, how are we going to really communicate with aliens? What's our chemistry going to be? But how are we going to communicate? And of course scientists are very adamant about well, of course we're going to communicate in science and math, because it's all universal physics and everything like that. So artists have another one that's like oh, it's going to be art, because art is universal and that's going to be the universal expression. I'm like nope, it's going to be parenting.

Jerod Tate: 42:45

That's going to be a universal language because when we tell a story to each other and they roll their six eyes at the same time, we roll our two eyes. Boom, we've communicated, we bonded and it's all going to be about a story about our teenage kids.

Steph: 43:01

Oh my gosh, that's hilarious. I have a 14 year old right now.

Jerod Tate: 43:06

Oh, you do, You're 14. Ok, you know it. I know it, we're in it, we're in it.

Steph: 43:12

It's hard as artists to allow ourselves that time, especially as parents, to allow ourselves that time to sustain our artistic side of ourselves, because you could give everything to your kid. Yes, you could give all of your time to your kid and your pets. So it's all about each one of us figuring out when we're our most productive, our most artistic, most connected to our muse, and trying to work around that time.

Jerod Tate: 43:36

Agreed and it changes. It can change weekly.

Liz: 43:39

Yes, I was just saying, I was just saying for now it's an incredibly fine architecture that we can set for as long as humanly possible.

Jerod Tate: 43:44

And that becomes increasingly more difficult. But so I remember in college I was the late night composer. I would start at 9 o'clock at night and go to midnight and I would go to coffee shops and do a lot of this work externally and then I would go to pianos and I kind of split it. I had my system in college I remember I remember very fondly of because I remember the focused time that I had, but it didn't last that long because life's changed, I hear I act as if it had happened for decades or something Now. So now what I do is I get up 3, 30, or 4 in the morning, depending on the day.

Jerod Tate: 44:14

And, like I said, I would get a couple of hours in and I can shower, and then I wake my son up at 6.30 for his school and I know by the time I get back I will then grab another couple of hours, and if I can get four hours of composing in a day, that's pretty darn good, and if I can get more, that's great. But then of course there's just so much business to do and things to take care of and I've got to grocery shop and look for things and do fill up forms for my son for school. I mean there's lots of just real stuff. But when I can get stuff done by 9 or 10 in the morning, oh my gosh, I feel really really good. That's the time when all pistons are firing really really nicely. I love the fall, because the sun doesn't even come up till after he's awake, and so I feel like, yeah, I've just conquered the whole day because the sun is not coming in.

Steph: 44:57

I have the whole day left, so I pick myself out like that.

Jerod Tate: 44:59

So I like that I don't like the summer because it comes up at 4 in the morning. I'm like no, stop it.

Steph: 45:03

I go back down.

Jerod Tate: 45:05

I got stuff to do.

Steph: 45:07

Do you ever have moments or days where it isn't coming? Oh, yeah, yeah. What do you do?

Jerod Tate: 45:13

Oh, absolutely. So what I do is I let myself off the hook immediately. It's like just stop it, Get something else done. Just go, go, go go.

Jerod Tate: 45:20

Because I remember talking to a friend of mine and I said procrastinating means that you are metabolizing, You're processing. If you're not, like you know, OK, I love that. Procrastinating if you never get the gears going, that's one thing, but a lot of times we are really hard on ourselves and we say we're procrastinating but actually we're processing. And I think if you can be aware of that and allow that to happen, you actually will end up saving more time, because you're spending less time beating yourself up, which takes time out of your schedule. Actually to sit there and self-criticism. It actually takes a lot of time out of your schedule. It's really kind of funny. We're all talking about time as we get older, like this but the thing is is that I've just learned to be like it's not happening. Just stop, Just stop it. Jared, You're going to get this. Obviously, you've got to take care of these other things for the mental space, so I just allow myself to do that, and sometimes it doesn't feel like there's time to do that, but I mean what?

Liz: 46:11

can you do? Yes, I appreciate that so much.

Jerod Tate: 46:14

If I run into a real serious problem with time, then what I do is I communicate with other people that it affects. So I'm just like I just got to do it. And I'll tell you I'm finding this out later in life that the more I do that, the more empathy I get. I have so many people that are like, oh dude, I get it. I you know. Hey, that's fine, we'll work this out. Okay, what do we need to do? And we usually work it out.

Jerod Tate: 46:36

I mean, so this year I had a double hernia surgery last fall and I was thinking, yeah, I'll just get right up, I'll just triple down, and I mean Jared. So what happened is I lost six months. I lost four months of productivity, and so I honestly had to have a sit down with myself and I said I'm behind. It's that simple and I'm not. I'm just not going to be able to do what I was hoping for and I need to try to rework our schedules. The first time I did that, like it kind of en masse, as a professional move I just had to do because of my circumstance, and everybody was like, right, okay, let's work it out, what are we doing? And I was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe this. And so what a?

Steph: 47:13

relief Huh.

Jerod Tate: 47:13

Yeah it, that was really beautiful, it's really cool. And, of course, you know, honestly, my finances changed because of that, because my financial schedule radically changed. So I had to go all right time to tighten the shoestrings, pull up my bootstraps and figure this out. I'm going to be okay, you know.

Jerod Tate: 47:28

Well, those are real things that we all deal with and so, but what I did is I just really practiced a lot of faith and I just allowed myself to have the time that I needed to, and I just thought, you know, again, my parents were a lot poorer than I am and it was a lot worse, honestly, for them and my grandparents, my great-grandparents. I just reminded myself of that. It's going to be okay. I've got friends and family, I can talk about this, I can figure this out, you can always work it out. That was the attitude that I just had to give myself, and so I allowed myself to completely change deadlines and everything like that, so then I could regroup and boy did I make a huge difference in my life. And of course, you know you still end up really busy, but it's just like it usually kind of comes back.

Liz: 48:05

It's such a great thing to share, though, and I think it's really important because we've talked a little bit about the importance of community and the importance of having people support you, having a village, and so the idea that you can't rely on those people in a time of need. In this case, it's just putting the phone to the ear and saying, hey, I can't, I can't, I can't.

Jerod Tate: 48:28

I can't, I can't, yeah Right.

Liz: 48:30

And knowing that the response is not well too bad. The response is like, hey, do what you got to do, you know, like, and how can I help? Like can I help you? You know? I mean that is such a huge, important thing to help us through those moments, to get us to the other side where we have the ability to make the space for it and the and the resources and everything is very resonating with me very deeply in my own life.

Liz: 48:54

And I just feel like it's so important to have both of those pieces. You know, we can't be self, we can't be 100% self reliant, and if we're in a vacuum and we're struggling, that's another, there's another direction that that goes right. Yeah.

Jerod Tate: 49:06

Yeah, I totally agree. You know it's also what I do for anybody who called me. I mean my gosh, if somebody calls me, it's a Jared. I mean, it's happened all the time. And it's like, you know, when I really think about it, when I reflect on it, when I've gotten those phone calls, I'm like, oh my gosh, hey, let's take a moment to breathe. And oh, my, yeah, we're going to figure this out and I, you know what can I do? Yeah, that's, that's, that's been the response. And so I've learned some really, really neat current life lessons because of that. That, you know, I will absolutely lean into in the future. And then some lessons I can teach my son no, hey, listen, when there's troubles, you talk to me and you talk to anybody you need to, because people are on our side. You know it's like we are in community, we really really are, and a lot of times we forget that because we're hard on ourselves. You know we have lots of expectations of ourselves, but when we just lean into that, a lot of people, most people, come through. Most people do. It's the majority really really is.

Jerod Tate: 49:53

I'll tell you a story. When the pandemic hit, this was something that had occurred to me that was really important. I was in touch with a lot of orchestral musicians and one really really good friend of mine who's in a particular orchestra was talking a lot, and they were like I was like how's it going? And they were like, because you know, our, our adjustments had happened within three days. So I remember on Thursday I'd heard that school went to a half day. The very next day we got an announcement school was not meeting. And then on Saturday we got the announcement that school was closed indefinitely.

Jerod Tate: 50:20

So I became a full-time homeschooler and I was in the middle of all these scheduled performances and commissions and everything and the immediate response was to get on emails and say your, your invoices are still do? I mean, it was panic mode and so I was talking to my, my colleague, and they were like, yeah, it's bad. And I was like what's going on with the library? And it's just telling me what's going on with the orchestra's emergency meetings, like crazy, what are we going to do? And they were all the first thing we're talking about was all their invoices that were pending for electricity in the building, all the way to commissions and rentals. And I was just like, okay, this is. And because I kept going to the computer to collect. I just couldn't do it, I'm like, and so I just thought I know what I'm going to do.

Jerod Tate: 51:00

So I emailed everybody and I said you're off the hook, I'm. I did it preemptively so that they didn't have to, like, you know, contact me. I was like I was on it. I was like I want to let you know that you are. This is not on your table anymore. Program me in a year. Please Just keep the music. Whatever we need to do, let's figure something else out, but I just want you to know right now that this is not on your table anymore. Like I'm out of it.

Jerod Tate: 51:20

And I got online to my own account and I was like all right, you got four months to live, I get four months of money to live on. Okay, so now, what are you going to do? First of all, I let everybody I was like I lost. I voluntarily was like lost all my money. I'm not afraid now, but the thing is, though, is that we're all looking for the same $5 bills. I mean, so what good was it going to do for me to go? You know, oh, you still owe me this money, and you're a big institution and you can afford it. But no, it's not the case at all. They're still paying payroll to orchestral musicians who are now all terrified because they don't know, I don't know how much. Somebody has only a day left in their account. Some people have a week.

Jerod Tate: 51:54

I was so fortunate to have four months of bills in my account that I could rely on, because then I was like all right done. And then that's when I actually gave all my music away for free, because I was like, if anybody can, just if I get five performances this year, I can collect some BMI royalties and I'll have something. It'll be more than I ever thought I could have, you know. So I was just like forget it. I just dropped the whole bag.

Jerod Tate: 52:14

I was like you know, just this is not going to work and nobody in my community can afford this. Nobody can afford this. And so the last thing I'm going to do is step on everybody else's neck. It just didn't make any sense, you know. And so then all the zooms kicked up and there's a lot of life coaching going on with each other about. Like you know, how are we doing this? It was really really, really beautiful actually. So, but I just said to myself. I was like I'm going to do this one day at a time. I'm going to sit down and I'm going to solve one problem a day and by the end of 30 days I will have 30 problem solved and three months of income still you know, I was just like looking at all this, like, but 30 problem solved right.

Jerod Tate: 52:48

So what did that mean? Well, it would mean that I would figure something. I was, something was going to happen out of this, but I was just like you know, I'm in gratitude and I'm fortunate and I'm just going to do this, but it was really, really important to make sure that my community knew hey, we're totally in the same wheelhouse here. This is. You know, we're going to shake hands and we're going to help each other out. It was really, really important and I had so many colleagues who were on board with that, thinking and, you know, really doing well, and it was the majority of people that were doing that and helping each other as much as possible. It's really, really beautiful.

Steph: 53:18

It's so lovely to hear because we think of ourselves coming from such a scarcity mindset to to embrace such a sense of abundance that it's like faith, that it will come, we will be able to solve this problem together, and that there's enough work out there. It may not be the same work, but if you're able to broaden your horizons a little bit, broaden your sense of what you're willing to, you know, put out there the energy you're about you're able to put out there, then it will come back. Yeah, that you'll be provided for.

Liz: 53:49

This is a beautiful thing is that? We're looking in your studio there with the piano and the electricity is on, so somehow you made it past those four months even after making that decision and that's like a testament right To trust.

Jerod Tate: 54:03

Agreed and it really begins with gratitude. So when, when you really pull that, when you work the muscle of gratitude, you're meat. What happens is you. You change a mindset of scarcity to abundance. What you do is you go hey, look what I have. I mean, look, I'm talking to you on this. You know, with this microphone and this, camera and all this kind of stuff.

Jerod Tate: 54:22

I mean, I'm able to do that, and the fact that I can do that means that I'm I'm going to be okay. There's something that's going to work out all right. If you could look at everything with a sense of gratitude towards I've got a beautiful cat, you know he's healthy.

Jerod Tate: 54:36

He's eating oatmeal and strawberries every morning. We're good with that. That's really. These are all things to be grateful for. You know, I'm not a person in Libya who's spouse has been killed in a war and I'm sick and my children have the flu. That's a very, very different story. With no assistance whatsoever, that's a real thing in the world right, while we are sitting here in privilege, you know online and everything, and so just having that lens of gratitude is really, really critical, and it also allows you to move ahead a lot quicker. It actually saves time. It really really does.

Liz: 55:04

Yeah for sure. This has been amazing. It's been so great, it's been so fun.

Steph: 55:08

Nothing new than music. No, it's everything to do with music.

Jerod Tate: 55:10

Yes, it is. I'm sure a lot of everyone comes into music, to do music.

Steph: 55:12

I feel like we're back right when we were in Italy.

Liz: 55:14

That's the world that we live in. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. I don't know. It's just refreshing to hear the perspectives for anybody who's working towards some creative endeavor. Just the level of trust and the making it work. I mean, there's just so much here that's been so great. What's coming up for you, jared? Are there any big projects you're working through right now? Any new premiers coming up? Yes, almost everything.

Jerod Tate: 55:40

I'm very, very blessed and very overwhelmed. I'm managing prosperity right now and I'm very grateful for that. So I will admit I'm very, very tired and I'm also very fortunate. So I'm finishing up my piano and flute duo right now and I'm immediately going into a commission for a city music Cleveland that I have to compose very quickly and efficiently for soprano and orchestra and I will conduct that concert and then shortly after that I've got some well, in the meantime I've got some great performances in New York City with Cantori in New York and I've also a Lincoln Center performance. And then Turtle Island's Drink Rotet is touring one of my pieces right now and my son is coming out with me to well, actually, he just performed with me when I conducted the Akron Symphony and he's performing with me when I play in Carnegie Hall in March That'll be cool and Link and the New York City Philharmonics playing mine in my works just before Carnegie Hall, which is really great. So I'll be going out to there. So I've got the residency that I'm flying out to. And then also I've got a couple of commissions from the Dover's Drink Rotet and I'm premiering my new opera next October, which fortunately is finished, but that's going to premiere here in Oklahoma City with Canterbury Singers and Canterbury Voices and Oklahoma City Philharmonic.

Jerod Tate: 56:48

It's a two-hour opera, that's it'll be a concert opera sung entirely in the Chickasaw language, and we have four American Indian opera singers that are playing four of the Leeds there's many Leeds actually in this and so Caitlin Morton is our Cherokee soprano, who's the lead, she's a mezzo.

Jerod Tate: 57:02

We have Kirsten Kunkel, who is a Muscogi Spinto soprano, who plays the grandmother, mark Billy, who's Choctaw Baratone plays her father, and then Grant Youngblood is a Baratone Lumbee Baratone who's playing the river that she speaks to at the very end of the first act. And so this is a story about Luxie, which means turtle, and this is about a girl in our past named Luxie. It's a hero story. It's almost like a combination between a hero's journey and an ugly duckling story, where she starts out young and very insecure about her abilities and everything and turns out to be the person who entirely transforms our culture. And so it's beautiful, it's a really really great story and it's a perfect two-act opera story, and I just I'm really grateful that I got to compose this and so that's premiering next October here in Oklahoma City in our language, and I'm really happy about that. It's wonderful.

Liz: 57:48

It's really grateful.

Jerod Tate: 57:49

Immediately after that, I'll be premiering a work with the Oklahoma City Philharmonic that will be actually six different native languages sung with the chorus and soloists. I'm calling that my American Indian Symphony because it's covering many regions of Indian country here in North America. And then I've got so. My son, hiloha, just turned 10 years old and his name Hiloha means thunder in the Chickasaw language, and he is quite a kid. First of all, his favorite sport is our traditional stickball sport. The Chickasaws Play Stickball, which is actually the origins of that's where La Crosse came from. Hiloha is an incredible horn player and ballet dancer and he started horn and ballet four and a half years ago. So when he was just five years old, he came to me and said he wanted to play an instrument, and I was like great, you talk to the right guy. I got him to start on piano. He said nope, he said, and I said what do you want to play Horn?

Jerod Tate: 58:35

Okay, okay, wow he knew he was not six and he said that. So, boy, we had this problem because horns are by and big?

Liz: 58:44

I was just going to say do they make a horn the size of for a five and a half?

Steph: 58:47

year old French horn. This is cool we're talking about. We're talking about I think.

Jerod Tate: 58:53

So I found pocket horns that you could buy in China for 200 bucks $250 a piece. They're just B-flat trumpets, so it didn't work. And so then I found three-quarter sized F, single F horns that were made in Dallas, and so I didn't realize this after well. I was a brass player in high school, but they don't make many single Fs anymore. They were really common when I was a kid. So I found a three-quarter sized single F and that was pretty big on him now.

Jerod Tate: 59:15

But now he plays on a professional double horn now. But he's been studying horn for four and a half years and he's in the Oklahoma Youth Orchestra's program here in Oklahoma City and he also had just started ballet just that summer and he's studies with the Oklahoma City Ballet here and he's finally got the role of Fritz and Nutcracker this year. So he's doing Nutcracker and the Ballet for a number of years now. So, yeah, he's really really excited about that, but he's very good at both of them and he's just doing really, really well. So I am a very, very proud and busy dad and I'm really really proud of my son. My first job is being his personal manager.

Jerod Tate: 59:52

He's really busy with all kinds of wonderful, wonderful things and I'm just really, really grateful that he's got that life and just good kid, he's my guy.

Steph: 1:00:03

Well, now you get to have the role of the nurturing, supportive patron that you were so lucky to have as a child.

Jerod Tate: 1:00:10

I had so many great mentors when I was a kid, and the gifts that my parents gave me are just immeasurable. Yeah, it's good stuff. People did that for me, and their voices are in my mind every single day, the ones that I need. It's right there, right there, my aunt, oh honey.

Steph: 1:00:25

What did you say?

Jerod Tate: 1:00:26

Oh honey, I just want to cry, or something.

Liz: 1:00:28

Yes, you will.

Jerod Tate: 1:00:29

I was just so fortunate that I had people like that. Gosh, my dad called me one time in 1991, I think it was. I was in Cleveland, jared, I need to talk to you. I'm like, oh boy, what did I do? And he said I just want to make something really really clear to you. And I said, yeah, he said you are a Chickasaw man. Yes, thank you, dad. What's dad, what's going on? He said, well, I just heard this interview about somebody who said that they're part or whatever this kind of thing and this is an issue that lots of people have were mixed heritage, that kind of thing. And he said look, I just want to make sure that you are really, really clear that you are not the son of a Chickasaw father. You are a Chickasaw man. And I said thank you, I've never forgotten that.

Steph: 1:01:08

He said that yeah.

Jerod Tate: 1:01:10

And this is really important to me, and it's far beyond skin color or percentage or anything like that. It has to do with his belief in me, my spiritual connection, and I mean my father believes in me, and so both my parents believed in me very, very deeply. And so I just I think about these things, these statements that people make for us from time to time. They're really, really important, that we need those as our ropes sometimes when we're really struggling, and so I think about that with the kids that I teach my own son. I want to make sure I'm saying things that they understand.

Jerod Tate: 1:01:43

It's really important as a teacher that the kids know that you love them. They know it, boy. They know it, and they will never, ever forget it. Their hearts always remember that. It's really critical that we are always giving that. If we don't say it with words, we're showing it in our actions, in our looks, the time, the care, the way we're interacting. It's clear that we're showing them that we care very deeply about them, and that just comes in our attitude, in our spirit and how we are with them. So that's really important stuff.

Steph: 1:02:09

Yeah Well, it's clear that that's the way that you live your life. That's very moving.

Liz: 1:02:13

Yeah, yeah. Thank you so much, jared, for joining us today.

Steph: 1:02:16

This has been so wonderful. It's been amazing.

Liz: 1:02:19

Just stay here and talk all day. I know.

Steph: 1:02:22

Tell us all the stories I know.

Jerod Tate: 1:02:24

I could go in for a long time. That's the. My son will test it. He'll be like, oh boy, here we go.

Steph: 1:02:28

Oh boy, here it comes. Are you the dad that stays in the parking lot forever talking to the other people while your son's like?

Jerod Tate: 1:02:36

dad. If I had a daughter, I'd be one of the Swiftie dads Absolutely.

Liz: 1:02:45

Love it it's amazing.

Jerod Tate: 1:02:46

If Hiloha wanted to go to one of those, the parking lot concerts, I'd be right there.

Steph: 1:02:50

Yeah, they're having them in the theaters. Yeah, my daughter my younger daughter went.

Jerod Tate: 1:02:54

Everywhere. I'd be there, right there, maybe, a Swiftie dad talking all the other dads. So good, it's amazing. Yes, jared, the want to be Swiftie dad.

Liz: 1:03:03

Yeah, that's the title of this episode. I'm literally the best sign off we've ever had. Thank you so much for listening today. If you loved this episode, consider writing us a five star review on Apple podcasts, Amazon music, Spotify or wherever you listen.

Steph: 1:03:23

Thanks also to our season sponsor, Potter Violence.

Liz: 1:03:26

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Steph: 1:03:32

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Liz: 1:03:40

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Steph: 1:03:45

Our episodes are produced by Liz O'Hara and edited by Emily McMahon.

Liz: 1:03:49

Thanks again for listening. Let's talk soon. We'll see you next time. Zenie archive.